Historical Discussion Thread

[Ocelot]

An open forum for discussing history, particularly aviation and WW2 related but not limited to that.

For a first topic, I'd like to open with something non-controversial and just solicit some help. What are some of the top books on the Battle of Britain? (Since we have so many native Albionese around I assume you all would know.) Looking for something analytical, with data rather than popular histories. Something historians reference, rather than regular folks. Anything more in the style of Shattered Sword or The First Team if anyone's familiar with those titles.

[ArcEye]

I own shattered sword yet to read it, I personally don't have any books similar on the battle of Britain. I do own Peter Townsend's duel of eagles which I've also yet to read.

[Ginger]

Try these Ocelot , i have all of them but they are a bit costly new , but if you look on ebay there's some good prices now. I am upto vloume 11 + Dunkirk and fall of France.
https://www.wingleader.co.uk/shop/battl ... e-volume-1

[Shadepiece]

Galland, ace of aces, or Nazi propaganda con?

[Dickie]

The Matt Damon documentary "Pearl Harbour" touched on the BoB in some of the earliest scenes. "Hammer Down" was the protocol of the day for the RAF to signal that they had a firing solution on an enemy aircraft.

[Ocelot]

*apologies I don't know how to do the cool reply quote text thing*

Arceye: Can't recommend Shattered Sword enough. Excellent book, finally a cross border viewpoint in English. If you want to get the most out of it recommend reading the first volume of The First Team by Lundstrom. They kind of naturally parrot each other. Also a couple volumes of the Senshi Sosho have been translated for free.

Ginger: Those look like an excellent collation of primary sources, are the pages mostly text or filled with art and pictures?

[Ocelot]

Galland, ace of aces, or Nazi propaganda con?

I figured it out haha.


I wouldn't call him ace of aces, simply because several Nazi aces were vastly higher. As far as propaganda con -, is there something I don't know about the man? I know he was charismatic and sought to whitewash and promote his legacy postwar... but he was far from the only Nazi to do that. Is there something that has come out recently about him being some sort of propaganda tool?

[Ginger]

*apologies I don't know how to do the cool reply quote text thing*

Arceye: Can't recommend Shattered Sword enough. Excellent book, finally a cross border viewpoint in English. If you want to get the most out of it recommend reading the first volume of The First Team by Lundstrom. They kind of naturally parrot each other. Also a couple volumes of the Senshi Sosho have been translated for free.

Ginger: Those look like an excellent collation of primary sources, are the pages mostly text or filled with art and pictures?

Text / pictures / plans / and every RAF Sdn AAR day by day from the fall of France to the End of the BoB.

[Shadepiece]

Galland, ace of aces, or Nazi propaganda con?

I figured it out haha.


I wouldn't call him ace of aces, simply because several Nazi aces were vastly higher. As far as propaganda con -, is there something I don't know about the man? I know he was charismatic and sought to whitewash and promote his legacy postwar... but he was far from the only Nazi to do that. Is there something that has come out recently about him being some sort of propaganda tool?

Not that I know of in particular, more just stirring the pot. I think he was an interesting figure though. Leading from the front and all that. I just also think he had a massive ego that seems to get in the way of the reality that his side lost.

[Ocelot]

A massive ego???? On a pilot??? On a fighter pilot not less?? Definitely.

As far as I know he was decently competent though. It does beg the bigger question of whether the Wehrmacht/Nazi Armed Forces generally and the Luftwaffe I particular have been overrated in postwar historiography. Particularly on the Russian Front since they were essentially allowed to write their own histories, not to be critiqued until the short window western historians had to access Soviet archives in the '90s.

Personally, I think the western interpretation of the Wehrmacht is particularly skewed. Coming from Cold War propaganda/lack of unbiased source material the narrative of outnumbered German soldiers constantly throwing back enormous hordes of unceasing Soviet men and material is very misleading. The Wehrmacht was not as comparatively dominant as popular history like to portray, and the Soviet ability to overwhelm with material (not so much bodies tho) significantly less than originally thought.